Going Beyond Jaws
Show notes
Welcome back to another episode of The Whole Tooth! Our guests this week are scientists, communicators and hosts of the Beyond Jaws podcast Andrew Lewin and Dave Ebert. Beyond Jaws is all about showcasing the diversity of shark science and the people behind the research, asking them about their career journeys and how they got to be where they are. Whole Tooth host Isla flips the script and asks Dave and Andrew about finding their own niche in science, their passion for lesser-known shark species, and the importance of scientific communication in promoting marine conservation to a wider audience.
As always, we begin by asking Andrew and Dave to describe their most memorable experiences in the ocean [04.42]. One involves a very peaceful experience in the Arctic Ocean, the other a near-death experience with a white shark off the coast of South Africa…
After reliving such a close encounter, we take a slightly more calming detour into the world of podcasting – more specifically, the Beyond Jaws and Speak Up for the Ocean Blue podcasts [12.21]. We talk about how these podcasts came about, and how Dave and Andrew came to be co-hosts. Turns out they really liked talking to one another, and fellow shark enthusiasts, and decided to make it official by creating Beyond Jaws! This segues into a conversation about science communication more broadly, and why we all believe it to be so integral to conservation [15.31]. Andrew explains that it was a mixture of lifestyle choice and passion for communicating science that pushed him to start the Speak Up for the Ocean Blue podcast in 2015. Frustrating conversations with family and friends led him to realise that there was little in the way of long-form, educational content related to the oceans. He describes being ‘fuelled’ by the opportunity to inspire someone to become a marine biologist, start recycling or even find out more about the threats facing marine life. Dave’s route was a little different [21.21] – he built an extensive career researching sharks, which began when the media looked very different from what it is today. He was soon being asked to make appearances on local TV stations because of his expertise, which evolved into interviews for Shark Week and on BBC, but it wasn’t until he met his ‘podcast dealer’ Andrew that he discovered a love for that type of content.
Isla then asks Andrew and Dave for their advice to budding marine scientists, both from their own experience and from the interviews they have done over the last year with Beyond Jaws [26.06]. We discuss the need to persevere, even if things don’t seem to be going in the right direction, and carving out your own ‘niche’ that sets you apart from the crowd. We also come back to science communication, talking about how funders and institutions are now looking for candidates with the ability to translate their research to a larger audience, and how this can also be a route into science if you feel that academia or research isn’t for you.
Of course, we can’t go a whole episode without talking about sharks! We delve into the world of rare or less-celebrated species and discuss some recent research findings that have really blown our minds. Dave talks about a new discovery of his own [38.15] – the dwarf false catshark – a tiny shark that is known to eat its own siblings in the womb. Andrew also mentions one of Dave’s scientific findings [39.26], a deep-sea skate that lays its eggs on hydrothermal vents, using these hot and hostile environments as incubators! Dave and Andrew then discuss one thing they wish the general public knew about sharks [41.43], including the need to breakdown negative stereotypes and the sheer diversity of shark species out there (most of which have been discovered in the last few decades, a lot of them by Dave himself!).
Finally, we discuss the ways that we can better celebrate the true diversity of shark and ray species, and thereby promote their conservation [47.20]. And, of course, we end by finding out which species our guests would be…their answers will definitely surprise you!
About our guests
Dr Dave Ebert
Dr Dave Ebert has devoted his life to studying the ocean’s most elusive, dangerous and yet fascinating predator – the shark! His global explorations have led to the discovery of over 50 new shark species. Author of 30 books, including the “Sharks of the World”, Dave is a popular television guest frequently appearing on various programs for the BBC, Discovery Channel, and National Geographic. As a regular on Shark Week, Dave has led expeditions in search of the rarest, most elusive sharks in the world. He has even discovered new shark species while filming on location. Whether he’s sharing anecdotes about dining with royalty or hanging with fishermen in remote villages, Dave brings the audience along on his own personal journey with vivid stories of exploration, discovery, and travel from his most recent adventures. He is the founder of the Lost Sharks project and co-host of the podcast Beyond Jaws!
Andrew Lewin
Andrew Lewin is a marine science communicator that specializes in communicating marine science and conservation to the public through podcasting. Andrew launched the Speak Up For The Ocean Blue podcast in 2015 to spread awareness of the issues faced by the ocean and to introduce the people that are working to protect it. Andrew has published almost 1300 episode on his own podcast and several hundred as cohost or producer of other environmental focused podcasts. He enjoys providing long form science content on podcast platforms and manages several other podcasts in the science and education categories.
Connect with Speak Up For Blue:
Podcast – Speak Up For The Ocean Blue
Podcast – Beyond Jaws
